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Does Microsoft know that deterministic reasoning may not require RAG at all? #13413

@yuer-dsl

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@yuer-dsl

I want to raise what appears to be a foundational contradiction inside Microsoft’s RAG- and agent-based frameworks.

In a controlled experiment, I demonstrated that ChatGPT Web — with zero RAG, zero vector store, zero retrieval, zero agents — achieved a completely deterministic risk-control loop across repeated iterations:

  • no hallucination
  • no drift
  • stable decision paths
  • reproducible reasoning

Demo (4min):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgHvAkcBINs

This suggests something important:

**Reasoning stability may not be an information-retrieval problem at all

(as RAG assumes), but a structure/constraint problem at the expression layer.**

If true, then a bottom-layer LLM can be stabilized without retrieval pipelines, without chunking, without graphs, and without agents.

Which raises two fundamental questions for Microsoft:


**1. If base models can already operate deterministically without RAG,

what is RAG fundamentally optimizing for?**

The common justification is “reduce hallucination through grounding.”
But in this experiment, hallucination = 0 with no retrieval at all.


**2. If reasoning stability originates from expression constraints

rather than retrieval, does GraphRAG solve a problem that may not exist?**

Graph construction, multi-hop traversal, scoring, entity linking — these all assume LLM instability comes from lack of external knowledge.

But the experiment suggests the opposite:
instability emerges from lack of structural constraints, not lack of information.


Request for Microsoft Engineering Team

I am requesting an official technical clarification:

  • Is Microsoft aware of scenarios where retrieval is unnecessary for reasoning stability?
  • If so, what is the architectural rationale for continuing to build RAG-heavy frameworks like GraphRAG and AutoGen?
  • If not, how does Microsoft interpret the deterministic behavior shown in the demo?

This is an important research question, and I would appreciate an engineering-level explanation.

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